Isaiah 56

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Isaiah 56

Postby Neto » Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:50 am

Does this prophecy refer to some time then future, but now past, in the history of Israel, or is this about the time of the Messiah? (I take it to be the latter, but would like to know how others understand it.)
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Re: Isaiah 56

Postby David_L » Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:13 pm

In the Artscroll Milstein edition of The Later Prophets / Isaiah, the initial commentary for that chapter is "Isaiah continues his prophecy that the exile will be followed by the Redemption." Unlike some of the other chapters where there are differing viewpoints, the consensus here seems to be, at least according to Artscroll, that the chapter is foretelling the Messianic Era.

I've been working my way through the Prophets. It's weird that the day you made this post was the same day that I was due to study chapter Isaiah 56.
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Re: Isaiah 56

Postby Neto » Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:03 pm

Thank you, David. I really enjoy reading the prophets, but I do not know enough history to always understand what period of time (now past, or still future) is being spoken of. I think that sometimes it may be both, and that can introduce additional confusion.
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Re: Isaiah 56

Postby mariaw » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:08 pm

Neto, Hello! This is about the ERA of MOSHIACH. I think this Era is a time past with a future coming FULL CIRCLE with the past.

ERA: Ami Steinberger wrote a blog for Jewish Press called, "How to say Era in Hebrew." Ami says, "In Mishnaic Hebrew, it (Era) refers to a period of time that repeats itself."

Ami further states, that Era's "root – ק.ו.פ (k.w.p), is the same root as the word for to encompass - לְהָקִיף
The root ק.ו.פ is about coming full-circle. Thus a תקופה, even in Modern Hebrew, is a period of time – with a beginning and an end."

So, I'm adding a few sayings from Torah that may match Ami's research on the word "Era."

THE RETURNING WORD
In Isaiah 55:11---HASHEM say,"so shall be My word that emanates from My mouth,
it will not return to Me unfulfilled unless it will have accomplished what I desired
and brought success where I sent it."

Genesis 1:26 provides an "end of Days." The sixth Day is at the end & next to seventh & G-d's Day of rest.
Torah records G-d saying, "Let us make man in "Our image, after Our likeness. They shall rule........

HASHEM'S GLORY & IMAGE (Exodus 34.5) provides thirteen Attributes of Mercy.
If this Image is the same as G-d provided man In Gen. 1:26, then the man is a collective
of "they" & we can also call him Israel because the name Israel means "He will rule as G-d."

We should begin to see Israel as ruler from the Beginning when the fullness of time returns
full circle to Genesis record of Creation & Beginnings.

In Isaiah 55 & 56 the word "eternal" is found at least three times.

The chabad.org website records Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, of righteous memory (1902-1994)
teaching why the Talmud states, "Jacob Our Father Never Died."

The Rebbe continues, "From where do we know this? From the verse: ‘Fear not, Jacob…
for I will save you from afar and your seed from their captivity’ — just as his seed is alive, he too, is alive.”

This is very interesting reading. Time gathers up the righteous & takes them with it.
I think G-d circles Time around to begin all things new & doesn't march on into some unknown infinity.
The ending melding with the beginning, IMHO.

mariaw
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Re: Isaiah 56

Postby Neto » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:26 am

Maria,
That is a perspective which I find intruiging, although I have not heard it before. Please tell me, if this is a cycle, when was the prior time(s) when these promises were fulfilled? Are they to be understood in a spiritual sense, or in a literal sense? Or was it fulfilled once in one of these ways, and will again be fulfilled specifically in the other way in the future? For instance, can you point to a time when a man who was not "whole" was welcomed in the temple? (I hope I am not being too insdiscret here.)

Edited to add: Or do you mean that the Era of the Messiah will be a restoration of the original perfection of creation?
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Re: Isaiah 56

Postby mariaw » Tue Jan 06, 2015 1:39 pm

Dear Neto, You added "the Era of the Messiah will be a restoration of the original perfection of creation."
This is what I meant to say.

However there is an extremely important point to be made here on the sixth Day.
It may also be the Judgement Day or end of Days if you will.
Genesis 1:26----Although G-d says, "Let us make man in our Image on the sixth Day....

HASHEM alone will be exalted on that day." (Isaiah 2:10)
This is also the Day when HASHEM will judge among the nations & will settle the arguments of many people."
Isaiah 2:11----"Humankind's haughty eyes will be brought low & men's arrogance will be humbled; and HASHEM alone will be exalted on that day."
Isaiah 55.9 HASHEM says, "As high as the heavens over the earth so are my ways higher than your ways
and My thought than your thoughts."

1 Chronicles 17:24 tells us why the divine Name of HASHEM is higher than man's ways;
higher than David whom HASHEM appoints commander over the regimes. A regime is a gov. (Isaiah 55:3)
or Joshua, who speaks and HASHEM heeds his voice & the sun stands still & the moon stops.
HASHEM then wins the battle for Israel. (Joshua 10:12, 13, 14)

Psalms 68:12 says "the heralds (angels) are a mighty host."
V. 18 says, G-d's entourage is twice ten thousand, thousands of angles; the L-rd is among them, at Sinai in holiness."
Angels are important because they are messengers of light,

However, HASHEM is also called "the Ancient of Days."
A legion can be a 6000 man army or 6000 years of time or, in G-d's eyes, 1000 years is just as 1 watch in the night.
HASHEM is the Master of time.
Psalms 90:4----reinforces HASHEM'S mastery of time when Moses says of G-d,
"For even a thousand years in Your eyes are but a bygone yesterday, and like a watch in the night."

You asked: "If this is a cycle when was the prior times when these promises were fulfilled?"
Adam originally had the "eternal renown that would never be terminated" within Gan Eden.
After exiting the garden, Adam tries to plant Torah & provide the world with spiritual giants, teachers who are
like the cypress & oak tree...all he gets are thorn bushes & nettles mentioned in both (Gen.3:18 & Isaiah 55:13)

I believe the cycle of life is both physical & spiritual:
Isaiah 55:10 compares rain & snow descending from heaven with Torah bringing success.
The earth's rain is addressed in Gen. 2:4
Man may rule over the fish of the sea, but he has no power over time during his short journey here on earth.

HASHEM is the One true King and Creator.

I don't understand your reference to "man who is not whole."

Thanks for your post, Neto. I hope the forum forgives me for my lengthy answer.
mariaw
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Re: Isaiah 56

Postby Neto » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:43 am

mariaw wrote:....
I don't understand your reference to "man who is not whole."
....


I was referring to the man in vs 3, who likens himself to a dry tree, because he has been mutilated, and is sterile.
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Re: Isaiah 56

Postby mariaw » Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:39 pm

This is about the gathering in of all the righteous who join themselves to HASHEM & keep His Sabbath.

Isaiah 60:10---"Then the sons of foreigners will build your walls and their kings will serve you."-
(Isaiah 55:13) Thornbush & nettle is replaced by cypress & myrtle.
My footnote in Artscroll's Tanach says "In addition to the exiled Jews, many gentile converts will rally to Messiah (Rashi)----

Isaiah 56:3-The foreigner & the dispersed of Israel are the "dry trees & the barren ones." Learning Torah & keeping G-d's commands including Sabbath brings life. Torah is the tree of Life.--------
Is. 56:8 -The dispersed of Israel are gathered by the word of my L-rd HASHEM.---------
Isaiah 60:13---"The glory of Lebanon (forest) will come to you--cypress, fir, box tree together------
Isaiah 61:3----the elms of righteousness & v.5 "foreigners will stand & tend your flocks."

I think much of this is also metaphor as the flocks of G-d are His people as well.
A couple of examples of gentile women who became righteous are:
Ruth, the Moabite (Ruth 1:4) And Rahab, the innkeeper of Jericho (Josuah2:1)
Last edited by mariaw on Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Isaiah 56

Postby Neto » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:22 am

My tendency in interpretation is to take the Scripture in the literal sense, unless the context clearly indicates that it is to be taken in a symbolic sense. I may lean that way too much, but I think I should try to understand it fully in that sense before going on to other applications.
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Re: Isaiah 56

Postby David_L » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:33 am

The commentary I have for verse Isaiah 56:3 says:

"An infertile person should not think, 'Since I am barren and doomed to be forgotten, why should I try to improve my ways?' (Rashi). Alternatively, 'since the world was created for procreation and I cannot have children, this means that G-d has no interest in me' (Radak). One should never express such hopelessness."

The following two verses, 56:4-5, say that if that person keeps the Sabbath and the other commandments, then his reward will be "better than sons and daughters."

I don't understand why you say in your earlier post that "a man who was not 'whole' was not welcomed in the temple." He may have been excluded from the priesthood and from marrying, but otherwise I don't think he was excluded.
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