A question about study

A place to discuss what it means to serve G-d for those who don't happen to be Jewish.

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Re: A question about study

Postby steve » Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:33 pm

Hart60 wrote:Hi Steve,
It's always good to please others and to do as much as we can to help others if the reasons are just, sometimes we are obliged to go out of our way to do so but never to the point that we feel we are being used.
The Holy Creator gave us free will so that we could express ourselves and not be autonomous robots.

Dan.


Thanks Dan,
I now realise that I've spent my whole life serving others, pleasing others and not serving G-d.
My life has been so filled with arrogance, I really long to truly serve G-d.


Thanks Ess76,
Brilliant insight.
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Re: A question about study

Postby Hart60 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:35 pm

Steve,it's very easy for us to run ourselves ragged trying to please everyone,sometimes we have to stop and consider ourselves or the downside is we please no one,getting the balance right isn't easy.

Take care.
Dan.
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Re: A question about study

Postby Kira » Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:53 pm

Making someone feel that they're important, and they count, and they are appreciated, is one of the biggest ways to do "Chessed" - G-dly kindness.

There's nothing wrong with pleasing others in that context.

Also, "kavod", honor and respect, is one of the basic needs of human beings. It is perfectly normal to expect to be treated with respect, and nothing wrong with feeling hurt if you're not.

Where "anava", humility, comes in is as follows: if you not only feel hurt, but feel angry, it is because you think that the world owes you honor. G-d should have arranged that you get honor! You deserve it! That is already a problem.

On the other hand, if someone treats you inappropriately, and you say, "oy, that hurts, and maybe I should check that I haven't done something to make that person angry? No? Oh, then it's not about me, perhaps they had a bad day, perhaps they are in pain, and they lashed out at me"

The Sages say that a person should have two notes, one in each pocket. The first should say, "the world was created for me". The second should say, "I am dust and ashes".

It'a a balance.

-Kira
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Re: A question about study

Postby steve » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:04 pm

Thanks Kira,
I really need to nurture true Humility in myself. I feel that I've been trying to run before I can walk, trying to repent and do self accounting when I need to work on Humility first.

Are you saying that we should look at things two ways G-dly and mundane (discrimination) using freewill ?

The fifth Gate" is believing that it is not within the power of any created being to help or harm without the permission of the creator"
I'm struggling to understand, Could you please explain what is meant in the fifth gate ?

Would believing that everything comes from G-d but not using freewill be like withdrawing from the world
( similar to eastern religions) ?



Thanks.
Steve
Last edited by steve on Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:50 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: A question about study

Postby steve » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:58 pm

ess76 wrote:
steve wrote:The gate of repentance


It says in the gate of repentance that a person should desist from sin.

If a person asks for forgiveness then repeats the same sin it is disrespectful to G-d.

Should a person only ask forgiveness when he is absolutely sure that he will never repeat a sin ?

The question here is what our attitude is/should be. We are not praying to God to forgive our sins out of a feeling of guilt, and request to not be punished. That presupposes the notion of wrathful God whom we beg not to inflict pain on us.

Prayer and "Widduy" (confession) is FOR US, to stimulate mental processes that allow us to do real teshuva. Praying to God to forgive us for our sins is a necessary component for a person to acknowledge that what they did is wrong, and are now attempting to go onto the right path. It is essential that one do this while he is trying to change his ways. Crying out to God at this time is a way of encouraging an internal mental transformation of your very soul.

This is different from Widduy, which is a mitswath 'ase, to be done AFTER having completed full teshuva (repentance). Once you have "returned" to the straight path (rather than veering right or left), having finalized your internal transformation, you should express verbally the transgression that you did, as a way of formalizing your departure from that path, a "graduation" of the teshuva course, if you will. That transgression that you committed remains an integral part of **your personal journey**, like those of the 'avoth (Avraham, Yitshaq, and Ya'aqov). You, therefore, must hold onto the fact that you committed those 'averoth (transgressions), not as a "guilt-tripping," but as a recording of your personal journey with God. "Hattathi neghdi tamidh" (Tillim 72?) "My mistakes are before me always." This is the function of the widduy, to complete the teshuva process. Therefore, widduy for transgressions should continually be made, even years after you have already done full teshuva, in order to maintain your place against that path. Widduy, then, should NOT be done while still performing the transgression, i.e. prior to completing your teshuva. This is akin to someone who is "tovel wesherets biyadho," "immerses (in a miqwa) and a bug is in his hand," i.e. he seeks to purify himself via immersion in a miqwa while simultaneously holding onto the source of impurity.


Ess76,
I think I understand what you mean.

Thanks.
Last edited by steve on Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:59 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: A question about study

Postby steve » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:03 am

Hart60 wrote:Steve,it's very easy for us to run ourselves ragged trying to please everyone,sometimes we have to stop and consider ourselves or the downside is we please no one,getting the balance right isn't easy.

Take care.
Dan.


Thanks Dan.
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Re: A question about study

Postby steve » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:33 pm

In the Gate of submission -It seems submitting to others is a bad trait, I must have misunderstood Breslev teachings which say that everything that happens to a person is a Divine decree and should be accepted good or bad.

Is it wrong to believe that people we interact with are carrying out good and bad decrees ?


Steve.
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Re: A question about study

Postby steve » Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:19 pm

The Gate of Serving G-d

chapter 5

The mind asks the soul : Is it clear to you..........
and firmly understood,
that you are pledged to the creator for his kindness
and belong to him because of his abundant grace and great favor.

soul : yes...............

mind: Is it you intention to repay at least part of what you owe the creator

soul : yes..............

The Mind reminds the soul that over coming bodily desires is required as an initial step to serving G-d.

Rabbi Nachman of Breslev says
Man against beast : when a person is attacked by negative thoughts and doubts but fights and struggles to overcome them, this is very precious in G-d's eyes and gives him the greatest delight. Likutey Moharan 1/233

Does this mean that a person has to fight the evil inclination in the imagination ( where the evil inclination resides)? to stop negative thoughts becoming reality.

Steve
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Re: A question about study

Postby David_L » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:33 pm

"Listen, O Land: Behold, I am bringing evil upon this nation, the fruits of their schemes, for they did not hearken to My words or My teaching - they rejected it."
Jeremiah 6:19

From the commentary (Artscroll Milstein edition of The Later Prophets / Jeremiah) on this verse:

"Radak explains that it does not mean that they are punished for their thoughts, because Hashem does not punish for unrealized plans to sin. Rather, the penalties will be for the deeds that are the fruits of their schemes. The Talmud states, however, that if those plans come to fruition, the perpetrator is held accountable for the planning as well as for the deed (Kiddushin 40a)."

---
Steve: On reviewing this, I don't know if it answers your question. But it seemed relevant.
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Re: A question about study

Postby steve » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:08 pm

Thanks David,
What you say is very relevant, thank-you.
It is very sobering to realise that overcoming bodily desires is only a initial stage of serving G-d
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