Elixir or poison

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Elixir or poison

Postby steve » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:02 pm

The first question I asked on the old forum a lot of years ago was the meaning of "If a person merits the Torah it becomes an elixir of life for him. If a person does not merit, it becomes a deadly poison"
My opinion is that Noahides should be more concerned with loving G-d and showing uncondition love to others.
Jewish people should discourage Noahides from reading the Torah and encourage unconditional love and the strengthing of Emuna.
In my opinion the Torah is poison for Nohides if they haven't got strong Emuna and unconditional love.
Prayer is the gate to Emuna and unconditional love, prayer should be encouraged and Torah discouraged.
I would strongly advise non-Jews to concentrate on Emuna and unconditional love and only read Torah when they are ready.

Steve
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Re: Elixir or poison

Postby David_L » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:59 am

You may be right.

I'm a Jew, not a Noahide. I returned to religion late in life. I gradually began regular prayers, and continued with that for a couple of years before I was motivated to do regular Torah study. Now I feel that the combination of prayer and study reinforce one another.
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Re: Elixir or poison

Postby steve » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:14 pm

Thanks David,
Myself, I believe that Emuna through prayer strengthens unconditional love for others. My opinion is That if a person has Emuna they will see only good in the Torah.
Torah without unconditional love for others, is perhaps the very poison talked about.

Steve
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Re: Elixir or poison

Postby Hart60 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:23 pm

Hi Steve,hope you are well.
The Sage Rabbi Yochanan said -
If a person learns Torah for "its sake” and fulfills the Torah,the Torah becomes a crown for that person. But if he is not worthy of doing this (by his actions) the Torah becomes “a stranger” to him. If a person studies for positive reasons and fulfills what he learns, the Torah is a crown for him."

I strongly believe that along with prayer everyone should study The written Torah as it gives us knowledge of God's word and love for all of his creation, in turn we pass this on through our deeds and how we treat our fellow beings and the World in general.
When either is lacking, then one’s Torah knowledge is lacking as well, I believe this is the deadly poison referred to.

Best,
Dan.
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Re: Elixir or poison

Postby steve » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:57 pm

Hi Dan, The Duties of the heart talks about a love of G-d that is in the heart from birth, this love of G-d is Emuna in my opinion. Torah nurtures the good that is in a persons heart but what good is Torah if there is no compassion for others.I would rather show love and compassion than be like those who believe the Torah allows them to withhold compassion and Empathy which are the very foundation of Torah

Steve
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Re: Elixir or poison

Postby Hart60 » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:34 pm

Hi Steve,
I see what you say but isn't there a danger that this philosophy would deny someones emunah from growing through study?
I believe the concept of Emunah to be not only a deep faith and love in God but more importantly a deep trust in God that can be enhanced further by wisdom, knowledge, understanding and learning achieved by studying all the Creator's wonders of life through studying sacred Jewish writings.
I Quote this story from Chabad.org -
"The Talmud describes how a thief also believes in G‑d: On the brink of his forced entry, as he is about to risk his life—and the life of his victim—he cries out with all sincerity, "G‑d help me!" The thief has faith that there is a G‑d who hears his cries, yet it escapes him that this G‑d may be able to provide for him without requiring that he abrogate G‑d’s will by stealing from others. For emunah to affect him in this way he needs study and contemplation."

Best,
Dan.
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Re: Elixir or poison

Postby steve » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:00 pm

Dan, If a non Jew was walking through a desert dying of thirst and came upon a Jewish Rabbi who refused to help him, who's will would this be, G-d or the Rabbi's ? Emuna says everything come's from G-d and the Rabbi is just doing G-d's will. If a person deserves help they will meet the right person, the same with Torah, if a person deserves Torah it will make them righteous.
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Re: Elixir or poison

Postby Hart60 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:40 pm

Bad Rabbi ! Well that is unless of course he was provoked by the Gentile sufficient enough that he either refused or was unable to save his life.
Sorry Steve,I don't believe God controls us like robots,he gives us free will,but with wisdom of the difference between good and evil.
In Genesis 1:27 we are made in God’s likeness, we have the ability to reflect his qualities, such as love, justice, wisdom, and power. God has given us the wonderful and powerful gift of free will and freedom of choice,we can choose whether we will follow God’s moral guidance or not. (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) The gift of freedom of choice, though, does not mean absolute freedom. It does not free us from the physical and moral laws that God made for the stability and peace of the universe.

Dan.
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Re: Elixir or poison

Postby rivka » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:05 pm

steve wrote:If a non Jew was walking through a desert dying of thirst and came upon a Jewish Rabbi who refused to help him

Is this meant to be a metaphor? You have posted in the past about not getting the reaction you wanted/expected from various members of the Jewish community, but while I am certain that is extremely disheartening, it isn't actually analogous to someone leaving you in the desert to die.
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Re: Elixir or poison

Postby steve » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:36 pm

Rivka,
Perhaps I have taken Judaism too seriously. In life we don't always get what we feel we want or need.
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