Dependence or freewill ?

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Re: Dependence or freewill ?

Postby rivka » Fri May 29, 2015 2:06 pm

Or maybe it was lost so we should turn to Him and ask for His help.

The Gemara says about several righteous women that they were originally barren so that they would pray to Hashem. Obviously, children are far more important than a button!! But the same theory could apply on a smaller scale.

He wants us to pray to Him, to realize we are completely dependent on Him. For our lives, our income, our homes, our food, our clothing -- yes, down to the smallest button!
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Re: Dependence or freewill ?

Postby Hart60 » Fri May 29, 2015 6:43 pm

Yes that could be another reason for the lost button.
Not sure about the barren women in Oral Torah though, but then I'm not sure to which women it refers to,Rebekah,Rachel,Samson's mother maybe,but why did they see the need to ask Hashem when he promised that there would be no childlessness in the land ? (Exodus 23:26 and Deut. 7:14) maybe like Sarah the time just needed to be right.
When we want something we may hope that it becomes Hashem's will, but should we ask Hashem to change his plans for the world for one individual ? I'm sure that Hashem will be happy enough if we show gratitude and give thanks to him when things work out the way we want.

Dan.

Shabbat shalom.
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Re: Dependence or freewill ?

Postby rivka » Fri May 29, 2015 8:04 pm

Sarah, Rivka, and Rachel. I don't know if it states it explicitly about Chana as well.

Hart60 wrote:but should we ask Hashem to change his plans for the world for one individual ?
I strongly believe it is always ok to beseech Him for what we want.

Sometimes the answer will be no.
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Re: Dependence or freewill ?

Postby steve » Fri May 29, 2015 10:02 pm

I guess we are dependent on G-d whether we like it or not, maybe G-d just wants us to acknowledge his graces which wouldn't be the same as dependency.

The Rabbi acknowledges the loss of a button, acknowledges that G-d has removed it from his coat then acknowledges that G-d can return what is lost.


Steve
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