penthouses

A place to share our current Torah learning - summaries, suggestions, discussions.
Forum rules
1. Polite discourse.
2. Quote your sources
3. Translate all but the most basic Hebrew terms (Torah, Mitzva/Mitzvot, Shabbat, Halacha).

penthouses

Postby aries » Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:22 am

In parsha Masei, we read about the northern border of Israel. The word תתאו which only appear twice in the Tanach is translated as slanting (the border isn't straight it slants up). Rashi translates this as apendiz (a little appendage to a house with a slanted roof?) which in modern French becomes apendes? or lean to. The english translation is given as penthouse. I gather penthouse in its original meaning is a little structure you add to a house.
Seem to recall seeing pictures of medieval french houses with a little structure with a slopping roof next to it. Anybody have such a picture?
Aryeh Shore
aries
 
Posts: 332
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:07 pm

Re: penthouses

Postby Enora » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:27 pm

aries wrote:In parsha Masei, we read about the northern border of Israel. The word תתאו which only appear twice in the Tanach is translated as slanting (the border isn't straight it slants up). Rashi translates this as apendiz (a little appendage to a house with a slanted roof?) which in modern French becomes apendes? or lean to. The english translation is given as penthouse. I gather penthouse in its original meaning is a little structure you add to a house.
Seem to recall seeing pictures of medieval french houses with a little structure with a slopping roof next to it. Anybody have such a picture?


Had a tough time with this one because I had to go check in Ezechiel 40,10 and II Divrei Hayamim 12, 11 to clear up the terminology.
The correct modern day french word would most likely be "appendice".
Meaning "annexes". Appendice (apendix) were rooms that were added on around the central part of a house.
As in when discussing the borders, that which is not IN the border (house itself) but surrounding it.
In medieval architecture, it would be something like this

Image

Which seems logical when you consider Troyes architecture (you can do a google image search on Troyes) but you'll get stuff like this
Image

In the above cases we see "porches" around the house but it's the same terminology if those porches had been walled to make annexed rooms.
Enora
 
Posts: 524
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: penthouses

Postby aries » Tue Jul 26, 2011 8:32 am

http://www.menuiserie-pays-de-saint-malo.fr/pages/activite_construction

apentis is a lean-to

penthouse is appended to a house
Aryeh Shore
aries
 
Posts: 332
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:07 pm

Re: penthouses

Postby Enora » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:27 am

Oh I see, apendes is not in the dictionary but I had to guess appentis? Do I look like an architect 8-) ? anyways, it's the same root as appendice and means the same thing in french (asides that appentis IS an architectural term).
Both are from the latin word: appenditus which means to "hang" (hang onto, suspend as with a rope etc)
It would be more of an annexe to a house then our concept of a penthouse but I guess the root of the word pent is appenter (pente being an inclination, an appentis is an inclined roof with 2 sides held against a main structure ).
Regardless, the images I posted of Rashi's town of Troyes, illustrate the same concept you posted of St Malo in Normandie.
As it says in the link you posted the appentis is used to create a shed or a roofed porch or entrance
http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionna ... ,_Appentis



In this case, "leaning" towards meant circling/turning around (like in Yezechiel 40,10) and Rashi meant it in that manner. Rooms that surround the main structure. What we call in french "Loges de services" or "dependances".
Enora
 
Posts: 524
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: penthouses

Postby mariaw » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:27 pm

The Torah On One Foot

I copied & pasted this from a Chabad website "The Torah On One Foot." My bad!
_______________
The Talmud in tractate Shabbos 31a relates the following well-known story of
Hillel: "On another occasion it happened that a certain heathen came before
Shammai and said to him, "Make me a proselyte, on the condition that you teach
me the whole Torah while I stand on one foot."

[1] Thereupon he chased him away with the builder's cubit that was in his hand.

[2] When he came before Hillel, (he also asked Hillel to teach him the entire
Torah while standing on one foot)
Hillel replied, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor:
that is the whole Torah while the rest is commentary; go and learn it."
__________________
Notice that Shammai has a builder's cubit in his hand.
Does he see the Torah as only a
physical edifice as perhaps Ezekiel portrays it?

Genesis Rabba teaches us, among other things, that the
"The Torah was to God, when he created the world,
what the plan is to an architect when he erects a
building."


However, Hillel sees Torah in the spiritual sense.
I would like to mention one roof top.(a Kings head)
a window (the window & eyes of the soul)
and a gate (the mouth of a Torah teacher) that is making Hillel's point.

One window comes from the prophets & is where Jezebel's servants toss her
overboard for trying to kill the prophet, stealing a man's vinyard, and replacing
the L-rd's priests. She was mean, hateful & unwise so her windows (eyes cease to exist).

A Roof Top:
And the other is where King David sees Bathsheba bathing (What is hateful to you,
do not do to your neighbor.)

A Gate to the all this is the Peh or mouth speaking Torah...Oral Torah?
This is the Gate the Prince enters through...This is the gate that teaches that
one should bring G-d's creatures nearer to Torah with loving kindness.

Moses is the example of how to teach Torah with loving kindness as "rain drops
upon blades of grass" and "utterances flowing like dew."

Moses teachings are not biblical weather reports. Itsa kind and gentle Torah.

While some may be looking at building structures, or not,
I'm seeing the living soul of the Jewish people.........Torah.

mariaw
mariaw
 
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:23 pm

Re: penthouses

Postby Kira » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:38 pm

Gates are also the seats of justice

-Kira
Kira
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:55 pm


Return to Learning Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron