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Genesis 17

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:10 pm
by Hart60
After G-d tells Abraham that he and Sarah would have a son why didn't Abraham immediately share the good news with Sarah instead of leaving it for her to find out from a stranger ?

Thanks,
Dan.

Re: Genesis 17

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:02 pm
by Yisroelp
Hart60 wrote:After G-d tells Abraham that he and Sarah would have a son why didn't Abraham immediately share the good news with Sarah instead of leaving it for her to find out from a stranger ?

Thanks,
Dan.


A possible answer; there is a Jewish Law that one must keep to oneself information told in confidence. Abraham probably thought that he was not permitted to tell Sarah what God had told him.

Re: Genesis 17

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:22 am
by Hart60
Thanks YP, I also read on Chabad that The Ramban gives two explanations.
1. That Abraham knew that Sarah was also a prophet, so G-d would have also revealed this directly to her.
2. Abraham never had a chance to tell Sarah as he had just that day circumcised himself and all the males of his household.

Re: Genesis 17

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:41 pm
by Yisroelp
Hart60 wrote:Thanks YP, I also read on Chabad that The Ramban gives two explanations.
1. That Abraham knew that Sarah was also a prophet, so G-d would have also revealed this directly to her.


i was going to suggest that as a reason, except we find later on (in this week's Paresha) that Sarah heard the news by overhearing what the malachim said to Abraham.

Re: Genesis 17

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:14 pm
by Hart60
Yes YP in Genesis 18:10. "And he said, "I will surely return to you at this time next year, and behold, your wife Sarah will have a son." And Sarah heard from the entrance of the tent, and it was behind him."
But I guess Abraham could still have thought Hashem would tell Sarah.
Was it neccesary for the messengers to have said anything at that point anyway,wouldn't Sarah have known she was pregnant eventually ?

Re: Genesis 17

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:54 pm
by Yisroelp
Hart60 wrote:Was it neccesary for the messengers to have said anything at that point anyway,wouldn't Sarah have known she was pregnant eventually ?

Maybe at the ages of 99 and 89 respectively Abraham and Sarah, knowing that it was impossible for her to have children, weren't trying that hard, as it were. Now that they know for sure that she will get pregnant (3 months down the line) they have to play their part.

Re: Genesis 17

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:18 pm
by Hart60
Ah yes,I see what you mean.
Thanks YP.

Re: Genesis 17

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:16 pm
by Kira
Interesting thought, never occurred to me

Maybe that's what she meant by "my husband is old" 8-)

Or, perhaps that why he hadn't had a chance to tell her - he probably meant to tell her as soon as he was healed (not before!), and the angels came meanwhile

-Kira

Re: Genesis 17

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:57 pm
by mariaw
Happy Hanukkah everybody. :D

Why didn't Abraham immediately share the good news of the birth with Sarah?
Is it possible that he was at that very moment busy feeding hungry angels?
It takes time to add details to a long birth announcement.
Hungry messengers=Hungry message..Genesis 18.6

This birth announcement includes history that would be veiled, cloaked in the mists
of time & not so obvious. And one needs to take time to listen to details or prepare the
meal (Torah), so to speak.

Not only were the messengers eating a nice meal but their message would be long
& involved, hence the eating and fattening process. The more you can successfully
connect the Torah's stories the bigger (fatter?) the message gets.

HaShem discusses two births with Abraham?

Sarah represents two kinds of wives to Abraham:

1. Sarah is the literal wife who gives birth to Isaac & represents the obvious birth.
2. Sarah also represents HaShem's Wisdom giving birth to a "multitude of nations."
Genesis 17.4
I'm assuming HaShem calls Israel a multitude because Joseph is married to Asenath,
daughter of Poti-pher priest of On. Their two sons, Manasseh & Ephraim are partly
Egyptian. This brings to mind G-d's promise to Hagar that her sons would also increase
in abundance. And, this is also a reference to HaShem's fattening process.
Increasing in abundance is said of the Creation process in Genesis.
Only it comes out as being fruitful and multiplying.

Exodus 4.22---- HaShem's "first-born" child & future KING is of the house of Israel.
"So said HASHEM, My firstborn son is Israel. So I say to you, (Pharoah) Send out My son that he may serve Me."

It is even more apparent in Genesis 15.13 that HaShem's main topic for Abraham
is about Israel being Abraham's descendants living in a land not their own. (Egypt)

Numbers 24.8 again shows us HaShem's "first-born son" in the last Day.

"It is G-d Who brought him out of Egypt according to the power of His loftiness. He will
consume the nations that oppress him & crush their bones, and his arrows shall pierce them." [Num. 24.8]

Torah's main theme is G-d's love for His people & His blessing & care for them
repeated a thousand times over from the various Torah stories.

Even Balaam, sitting on a donkey, saw that it was good in HaShem's eyes to bless Israel.....

mariaw

Re: Genesis 17

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:02 pm
by Hart60
Thanks mariaw.