Making Kiddush

Discussing what is the right thing to say, and the right way to act, in situations arising in a Torah environment.
Forum rules
Please be sure that whatever case you relate has been changed enough to protect the innocent.

Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Enora » Tue May 25, 2010 12:12 am

Kira wrote:ok, not "sticky"

Awkward


Well ok, so if it's just awkward you can have three ways of seeing it:

Ok, then my advice, even though I'd be offended and would probably act with more pride and not follow my own advice lol:
Offer to have EVERYONE say it aloud, together, when you invite this person/people over.
Enora
 
Posts: 524
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Enora » Tue May 25, 2010 11:50 am

in my attempt to make my post brief, I deleted the two other possibilities lol. Sorry about that....

The other two weren't as diplomatic so I zapped them.
Enora
 
Posts: 524
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Enora » Tue May 25, 2010 12:23 pm

How about this situation:
A son in law (breslov) and family is invited over to his frum in laws (israeli sefardim orthodox stam, just regular people). In fact they're not even invited, they just go every week.
The son-in-law does kiddush and motzi because he considers himself "frummer" then his father in law.
My own father in law, witness to this balagan, tells the son in law straight up that this is NOT how the halakha works.
So now the son-in-law still does kiddush (because the father in law is a sweet man that gives kavod to his son-in-law) and the son-in-law had to give up doing motzi in his father-in-law's home on shabbat.
Kiddush on wine isn't as big a deal (in this situation) as motzi.
Which is interesting because I was just reading the halakhic reasoning to covering hallot during kiddush. I do remember asking as a kid "why do we cover the bread" and my grandmother answering "the bread will be jealous of the wine" and I would think "yeah yeah and the fork is in love with the spoon". Never gave it a second thought! I hadn't realized it's because technically, if the bread is uncovered on the table, it has priority over wine for kiddush.
Enora
 
Posts: 524
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Kira » Wed May 26, 2010 8:08 pm

Oy on that son-in-law, and profs to the father-in-law for being sweet and tolerant.

Ever been at a meal where the woman of the house says Hamotzi?

-Kira
Kira
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:55 pm

Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Enora » Wed May 26, 2010 8:42 pm

Kira wrote:Oy on that son-in-law, and profs to the father-in-law for being sweet and tolerant.

Ever been at a meal where the woman of the house says Hamotzi?

-Kira


Never and it's not going to happen in any sephardi home I go to lol. Maybe my grandkids will see the day...
I'm ashamed to say, I'd be stunned by it. My jaw would hit the table... and after getting over it, Yeah, hey, why not!!
Enora
 
Posts: 524
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: Making Kiddush

Postby rivka » Thu May 27, 2010 6:19 am

Kira wrote:Oy on that son-in-law, and profs to the father-in-law for being sweet and tolerant.

Ever been at a meal where the woman of the house says Hamotzi?

Every Shabbos. ;)
rivka
 
Posts: 458
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:28 pm

Re: Making Kiddush

Postby martinbrody » Thu May 27, 2010 1:05 pm

Kira wrote:Oy on that son-in-law, and profs to the father-in-law for being sweet and tolerant.

Ever been at a meal where the woman of the house says Hamotzi?

-Kira



Quite common in my community.

And has been for years.

Best,
Martin B
martinbrody
 
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:35 pm

Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Kira » Thu May 27, 2010 2:24 pm

Exactly - why not indeed?

Except that it's nice to make the men feel useful.

;)

So the first time one has to be careful not to let the jaw hit the table, but rather, smile and eat the Challa.

-Kira
Kira
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:55 pm

Re: Making Kiddush

Postby rivka » Thu May 27, 2010 5:04 pm

Kira wrote:Except that it's nice to make the men feel useful.

;)

:lol:
rivka
 
Posts: 458
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:28 pm

Re: Making Kiddush

Postby Saronic » Thu May 27, 2010 10:05 pm

In my community a lot of women say Kiddush as well as Hamotzee.

When I still had the "Back from Israel Religious High" after my year of learning there, a mother of a friend of mine asked if I was comfortable with her saying Kiddush for me.

I quoted one of my Rabbis and said anybody who would have a problem with a woman making kiddush for them would be arguing with a Tanna* and I would have more of a problem with them than her.

I'm thankful I learned Gemara Brachos** in depth (or at least, perceived depth by me) during my year there. A lot of common ...issues... pop up there.


*A Rabbi (or huge scholar) from the time of the Mishna

**It's primarily about "Blessings"
Saronic
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:04 am

PreviousNext

Return to Torah Etiquette

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest